soc.history.war.world-war-ii

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:08:38 -0400, Louis C
wrote:

>Tron wrote:
>
>> Can I look up anywhere ...:
>
>The link provided by Phil has all the texts, although I disagree with
>some of his conclusions.
>
>> Is a downed airman per definition a POW?
>
>No. (this is my main disagreement with Phil).

Perhaps I expressed myself badly. We actually agree.

>He becomes a POW when he surrenders himself or is captured. Until
>then, he is a combatant.

That is what I thought I said, if it seemed otherwise, either I worded
my response badly or ... well, something. You have, however, said what
I *thought* I had said (or meant to ... you get the idea).

>Quite a few downed airmen were never captured.

Indeed.

>> If he is not (yet) taken prisoner, what status will a civilian have if he
>> kills the downed airman?
>
>A murderer, except in self-defense.
>
>> What status do civilians have vis a vis members of enemy armed forces in
>> case of war?
>> Can they engage in combat (kill them), or is that murder?
>
>They're not suppose to engage in combat, but they can capture them.

And, by extension, if they resist in a way that threatens (or seems to
threaten) their lives or the lives of others, they can use force, even
deadly force ... even deadly force that *kills* the airman ...

Under whatever the normal rules for dealing with a threat to life and
limb and/or an escaping, potentially dangerous, criminal*, are
locally.

* Yes. I know. It doesn't actually say in Hague IV or GPW that
civilians can treat combatants as dangerous criminals. However, they
*can* capture them. It is implied they *can* use *force* to capture
them. And, by extension, if the airman tries to escape, surely the
implication is that they could, just as with a potentially violent
criminal, use deadly force to try and kill them, I suspect.

Yes. The law on self defence is rarely as clear-cut as some crime
movies might make you think it is. It can be *very* "iffy" ... and you
can get yourself in a *lot* of trouble ... manslaughter, perhaps
murder, charges ... if you do what the *police* (or prosecutor)
decides is the "wrong thing."

In wartime? A concerned citizen who tries to apprehend an enemy
soldier with, say, a shotgun? And said enemy soldier runs away when
he's told "Hande Hoch!" ... and said concerned citizens lets loose
with both barrels? And, oh so sad, they *kill* said enemy soldier?

I doubt there'd be any charges laid.

OTOH ... if they kill the guy *after* taking him prisoner that is,
indeed, murder (manslaughter, possibly ... depending on the specific
circumstances).

Phil

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon;
Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
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Email: aspqrz@pacific.net.au