soc.history.war.world-war-ii

wrote in message
news:f483ea76-cbba-4306-83ca-6e98f7a944d0@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> > Sorry, but that should be Ar-231
>>
>> So far so good.
>>
>> > and you are absolutely wrong as the
>> > official Kriegsmarine records at Freiburg claim a Type XIb was on
>> > trials early in the war which conflicts with the Deschimag
>> > construction records.
>>
>> No. What we have is a story put about for those in love
>> with wonder Germans to believe, sort of tooth fairies for
>> certain adults. Plus create a story to try and access funds
>> for a claimed salvage operation.
>
> Not a story, but of military record:

No a fairy tale

> Very little is known about the Type XI-B U-Boat.

A great del is known about it, the pre war U-cruiser concept,
cancelled before the war began. All the standard U-boat references
have the details.

> All official
> histories state that the vessel type was never built and numerous
> publications indicate that the Type XI-B submarine design went only as
> far as a preliminary 'keel laying' at the building yards of Deschimag -
> A.G. Weser in Bremen, Germany.

You see all the official documents are not going to be believed,
You know construction records, crew allocations, military post
office numbers, logs, diaries etc.

Instead there is a "subtle hint" in an unspecified document which
over rides absolutely everything else and that lead life belt will be
clung to while bottom is hit.

And the indications are the design was abandoned before any sort
of building began.

> However, there is a subtle hint that at
> least one vessel of this type was indeed launched from the Deschimag
> yards. Contained within the records of the Military archive at
> Freiburgim-Breisgau, Germany is a brief mention of the "actual" yard
> trials in the Weser River of the Type XI U-Cruiser having attained a
> surface speed of 26 knots. The details contained in the records of the
> Military archive in Germany makes it very clear that the above speed
> trials were not obtained from 'tank' tests of models. Therefore, there
> certainly is "some" proof of the actual existence of a working and
> operational model of the legendary Type XI.

You know it is obvious these stories are set up only for the
true believers, the ship must not only be secret it must be super.

So we have 26 knots for a 3,100 ton submarine. Ever done
the calculation for the size of the diesels needed?

The British Thames class required 10,000 SHP to do 22.5 knots
on 1,850 tons.

The type IX managed 19.2 knots with 4,400 SHP on 1,616 tons.

The unbuilt type XII were supposed to do 22 knots on 7,000 SHP
on 2,041 tons.

The type XVIII was supposed to do 18.5 knots on the surface
with 4,000 HP on 1,485 tons and 24 knots under water using
15,000 SHP Walter engines, displacement 1,652 tons.

USS Nautilus did 17 knots using 4,700 HP at 2,730 tons.

So please tell us where the Germans found the room to fit
7,500+ HP class diesels. The manufacturer would be nice,
along with the details of the fitting.

After all at 7,500+ HP they are around 3 to 4 times the power
of any diesels used in real production U-boats. Or was it steam
turbines on super U-boat?

As a hint Deutschland used 8 diesels of around 7,200 HP each.

Oh yes super secret submarine is supposed to be running trials
in the river, not the open ocean, and a river well with RAF mining
range.

> Do you refute the trials record of the Type XI U-boat in the
> Freiburgim-Breisgau military archive? If so, write to them and
> complain.

Oh I refute it all right. Because so far all we have is a claim.
What is the document reference number?

Write to them and ask for it. I mean if it is so wonderful why
hasn't it been published? Why is we are told it is just supposed
to exist?

> Also, if you accuse Trident of fraud, then the sonar scans would have
> to be a hoax too, right? They are available for viewing.

It is really simple Robert, go and give them your money so they can
go out there and find it. If you are so sure you are right you can
expect a big bonus.

I note all the problems with the claim have been deleted. To
repeat myself,

What I like is this wonder U-boat was running trials "early in the
war" which makes in 1940 or so, is supposed to be around in
1944, but somehow it is erased from all the German records.
So the Germans are supposed to have parked their wonder
submarine in a Spanish port for most of the 4 or so years?

What was wrong with one of the Baltic ports?

Did the German crew stay there all the time or did the Spanish
look after it? Why was it not sent out to help the disguised raiders?

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1077.htm

See Michaud, Edward.

The rec.aviation.military thread
OT: Hitler and the Volkswagen from 29 December 2007 shows
Robert raising the claim there and it being shot down.

What I like here is the idea it was in US waters in 1945 and
comes with a cargo manifest to encourage people to invest in
a salvage operation.

You know Germans build wonder submarine, do not use it,
rather they hide it in Spain for most of the war and then just as
the war is ending they send it laden with gold and other goodies
to US waters in order to be sunk in relatively shallow water so
conveniently located for a US salvage operation.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.