soc.history.war.world-war-ii

Michele wrote:
> "Hal Hanig" ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:4EFwj.41$MK3.2@newsfe02.lga...
>> Michele wrote:
>>> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> news:530271ab-c5f7-4cea-8f14-fbdf0cf41bd0@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Feb 18, 4:51 pm, "L2008" >
>>>>
>>>>> This is propaganda post. These people were "illegally" attempting to
>>>>> enter
>>>>> Palestine. The conditions on board were the conditions they were
>>>>> already
>>>>> in.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, it is your post sounds like propaganda.
>>>>
>>>> Remember that "Palestine" did not exist. At that time it was a
>>>> territory pending disposition.
>>>
>>>> There was no "country".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems to boil down to the notion that
>>> a
>>> UN
>>> mandate is a lawless Far West where anybody can come and settle in and
>>> nobody has authority to enforce law and order. It's a peculiar idea of a
>>> UN
>>> mandate.
>>>
>>> The people
>>>> were now living in "displaced persons" camps where conditions were
>>>> quite brutal.
>>>
>>> Many thousands of non-Jews lived in DP camps. Did this entitle all of
>>> them
>>> to migrate to the "non-country" or to any UN mandate, with nobody having
>>> the
>>> authority of regulating their flow?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The influx of illegal Jews was upsetting the demographic balance of
>>>>> the
>>>>> area
>>>>
>>>> All of the world "demographic balances" were being upset
>>>>
>>>
>>> And all immigration authorities, both the national and the international
>>> ones (these latter acting on a UN mandate) tried to regulate the flows.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying the British did the right thing (in setting their general
>>> policies; once those were set, the interception of a vessel carrying
>>> illegal
>>> immigrants is perfectly reasonable and it's everyday's fare today all
>>> over
>>> the world, with nobody claiming such events as being among the worst
>>> accidents of anything). But you seem to believe they had no authority to
>>> do
>>> _any_ thing.
>>
>> Michele, cherie,
>
> Hal, cherie, I'm a man. And if I were a woman that wouldn't mean I'd
> welcome
> being called "cherie" by you.

The spelling of your name threw me.....my face is suitably red. Where I
come from, Michele with an "e" at the end would be a feminine name, but
perhaps your parents were disappointed when you showed up and said "the hell
with it.....leave the "e" on the end"!
>
> it was the League of Nations that created the British
>> mandated territory in Palestine, not the UN. It was comatose when most
>> of
>> these events took place.....the UN wasn't formed until 1947.
>
> Fine, my mistake, even though the UN was the official name of the Allied
> coalition fighting the Axis powers and was created well before 1947. In
> any
> case, I still don't see this as changing the fact that the British were
> administering the place under international mandate. Are you assuming that
> administrating a mandate does not include the authority to stop illegal
> immigration?''

They voluntarily accepted the mandate as it was presented to them even
though it contained an obvious immigration headache that they must have
known was going to be a problem for them. Nobody forced them to take on the
job.....no amount of wiggling will help them weasel out of acknowledging
their part in creating the problem.
>
> Your comment
>> overlooked the fact that the Balfour Declaration opened up Palestine to
>> refugee Jews as a homeland and the British chose to ignore it.
>
> Which they very much were entitled to do. It was not an international
> treaty, it was not binding upon anybody.
>
> They share
>> responsibility for a good portion of the problem they found themselves
>> facing.
>>
>
> Of course. You can well say that they said one thing at one moment, then
> contradicted themselves, which certainly contributed to causing their
> problems. This still does not amount to saying that anybody had a right to
> unlimited immigration.....

And there was nothing to say that the right to unlimited immigration didn't
exist. Even with that so called unlimited immigration, Israel today is,
with but two exceptions, surrounded by hostile Arab nations with populations
that exceed theirs on the order of from 4 to 12 times greater than theirs.


> ........Today's governments happen to change their stance
> upon immigration, yet nobody dreams of questioning their authority of
> enforcing the rules they may have just changed.