soc.history.war.world-war-ii

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:53:36 -0400, "L2008"
wrote:

>"Phil McGregor" wrote in message
>news:47e1734c.1512796@news.individual.net...
>
>>> There were enough German survivors (and not all lied)
>>
>> 1) Do you have independently verified proof of this?
>>
>> No? Then it must be discounted.
>>
>> 2) Were those alleged "non-lying" survivors in a position to actually
>> KNOW whether Detmers had ordered the attack under a false flag or not?
>
>The Sydney was a cruiser - a formidable ship. What the f**k was it doing in
>a position that it could be shot at?

You haven't been paying attention ... unsurprisingly.

The allegation is that Detmers had raised the white flag and
surrendered and, as the HMAS Sydney, reasonably under the
circumstances, approached close enough to launch a boat with a
boarding party, opened fire with his concealed, underwater, torpedo
tubes, and only with his deck guns *after* the torpedoes hit.

Piracy. A war crime.

Now, of course, since you don't seem to have paid attention so far,
you will probably claim that there is no evidence the witnesses ...
all Germans ... lied ...

There is, however, no evidence that they told the *truth*, either.

That's the point I am making.

The officers of the Sydney *may* have been foolish ... or Detmers
*may* have been a pirate.

YOU don't know any more than *I* do ... and the fact that you are
taking unsupported, biased if not lying, assertions by the German crew
as gospel, unassailable, truth is ... unsurprising.

All *I* am saying is that, before you make your unsupported personal
assertions based on an acceptance of unsupported and biased, and quite
possibly lying, claims about the Kormoran's actions in the open stages
of the action you have the common sense to *WAIT* and see what the
visual survey of the wreck of the Sydney reveals.

It may not be conclusive. Or, indeed, it may prove Detmers was a lying
war criminal who should have been hung as a Pirate. Or that the
officers of the Sydney were criminally negligent.

There is NO chance that the findings will embarrass *me* as all *I* am
saying is "wait and see" ... there's at least a 50% chance *you* are
going to have to eat your words.

>All points to the skipper being a prat. Excuses about Japanese subs about
>are apologies for a prat.

All of the biased and possibly lying *German* testimony points to it.

The fact that you bring up the presence or otherwise of a Japanese sub
when all *I* have referred to is the allegation that Detmers opened
fire without hoisting his national colours first ... a war crime under
the Hague conventions ... and, possibly, had actually hoisted a white
flag indicating he'd surrendered and *then* opened fire is ...
unsurprising and shows that either you haven't bothered to pay
attention or are grasping at straws.

Phil

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon;
Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
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Email: aspqrz@pacific.net.au