soc.history.war.world-war-ii

SENECA@argo.rhein-neckar.de wrote:

>> >Several. The Stauffenberg plot was in contact with US/UK via a german
>> >OSS agent parachuted back to Germany.
>>
>> Cite?
>
>It was Gisevius
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisevius


Gisevius had some contacts with Allen Dulles
in Switzerland, but Dulles of course was
not parachuted anywhere - he operated from
the U.S. Embassy in Zurich.



>> >no apparatus in US maybe, but I know of at least one agent who
>> >was active in 1944 until caught by FBI. I heard some rumors that
>> >perhaps another group in New York was never caught.
>>
>> Cite? The original German spy ring (the
>> Sebold group) was rounded up in 1941.
>
>Gimpel is quite known in Germany.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Gimpel

Gimpel was not "Active until 1944".
He was landed on the coast from a
U-boat on 11/29/44, and was caught
within a few weeks.

>> Furthermore,
>> all the files of the Abwehr and SD were
>> captured at the end of the war, and there
>> was nothing in them about any genuine agents
>> at large in America, Britain, or Canada.
>
>If they realy got the files and the guys after 1945, do you realy
>think it would be known today?

Yes. The files have been thoroughly
explored by a multitude of scholars
and researchers.

>> >> Thus removal of Hitler, by itself, was not considered
>> >> sufficient. Germany had to surrender, and the German
>> >> army had to be dismantled completely. Many also believed
>> >
>> >Well, surrender sure. But in case of 20 July 1944, the army would be
>> >keept quite intact. The UK (or US/UK) plan was to land allied
>> >forces at the German baltic coast and move south to occupy Poland
>> >and CSSR.
>>
>> There was no plan by the US/UK to take
>> advantage of the 20 July coup. No one
>> in the US/UK had any knowledge of it,
>> nor had any plans been made. The Schwarze
>> Kapelle did not, AFAIK, have an actual
>> plan for dealing with the Allies after
>> the coup.
>
>Well, I think that is all not true. But as long as the US/UK
>offical documents are not released its hard to prove beyond doubt.

Ah yes, the secret files that would prove
the truth of some absurd claim if only
they were released.

>> There was no commitment by the Schwarze
>> Kapelle to allow Allied troops of any
>> country to enter Germany or any German
>> occupied territory.
>
>You dont need Schwarze Kapelle. A death of Hitler at 20 July 44 would
>bring surrender of Germany within a month. Göring was good with the
>west, against the war 1939 anyway.

Goring was a mass murderer, war criminal,
and arch-Nazi. He would be hanged.

>nuts to sign such a surrender. And the Army only wanted to prevent
>an occupation of German soil by the Russians. That the west would
>agree on by Rankin-C.

Rankin-C was not a binding policy. The
U.S. and Britain were publicly and
formally committed to accepting nothing
but unconditional surrender, and no
separate peace.
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