sci.physics.electromag

On Mar 22, 10:31=A0am, "FrediFizzx" wrote:
> "maxwell" wrote in message
>
> news:bbf0658f-d0a9-483b-a643-98871cc2ae89@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 20, 11:51 pm, "FrediFizzx" wrote:
>
>
>
> > "maxwell" wrote in message
>
> >news:22a9b163-87e8-4a83-a2e1-21a176f97f13@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...=

> > On Mar 16, 9:14 am, Benj wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 16, 2:46 am, khrapko...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > Dear Benj: What's the matter? What's the thread? Fields are
> > > > obviously
> > > > real and mathematics is an idea.
> > > > Radi
>
> > > Dear Radi,
> > > Forces are obviously real and fields are a mathematical idea.
> > > Benj
>
> > Sorry, guys, even forces also not real. You are just extrapolating
> > from the time-averaged muscular sensations we all experience. Force
> > is also a mathematically defined concept (see Newton's Principia).
> > --------------------------------
>
> > Maxwell, you are quickly going off the deep end. ;-) Pulleys and
> > weights can be used to measure forces; no muscles need to be involved.
> > The mathematical description of forces seem to fit the reality very
> > well.
>
> > Best,
>
> > Fred Diether
> > Co-moderator sci.physics.foundations
>
> Not at all. =A0Pulleys etc rely on a theory of gravity that IS linked to
> our macro sensations of effort. =A0Incidentally, why do our muscles get
> tired when they hold up a weight that never moves? =A0No displacement,
> no work, no energy - right?
> ------------------------------
>
> Well, it doesn't have to necessarily be "linked to macro sensations of
> effort". =A0The apple fell on Newton's head. =A0;-) =A0Macroscopically for=
ces
> are pretty real. =A0Now the concept of energy gets to be fairly
> mathematical. =A0But fundamentally it all boils down to the interactions
> of quantum objects. =A0Doesn't it?
>
> Best,
>
> Fred Diether
> Co-moderator =A0sci.physics.foundations
No, Fred. It begins with classical objects, namely us. Our concepts
are generated from the macro world. The micro world of the quantum is
an abstraction for which we have no direct knowledge - that's why the
theory is statistical. The scaling from the electron to macro objects
like cells is about 10**15, which leaves a lot of room for complexity
(and ignorance!).