sci.physics.electromag

>>>> 2. What "basic observation" can you cite that proves that, for
>>>> instance, an E field CAUSES an H field?
>>>
>>> The fact that electro-magnets work.
>
>
>> An electromagnet works because electrons are in motion; not because any
>> causal relationship exists between an electric field and a magnetic
>> field.
>>
>> Such relationship cannot be causal because E fields and H fields exist
>> simultaneously. The basic concept of causality is that A must precede B
>> in order for A to cause B.

FrediFizzx:

> Don't you think the E field from the electrons in motion help to make the
> B field of the electro-magnet?

There is no *measured* evidence that demonstrates any such relationship.
There have been numerous attempts and they have all had null results. For a
nice summary, see D.F. Bartlett, "Conduction and the magnetic field in a
circular capacitor." Am. J. physics 58, 1168-1172 (1990)

>Do you think the magnetic field of the electrons in motion are enough to
>make the total mag field of the electro-magnet?

As near as I have been able to determine, the only way that a magnetic field
can exist is through the motion of charges. This appears to be the case in
permanent magnets also, but I have not seen rigorous theory -- as well as
empirical evidence -- to support this contention.

>> If you have not done so, I highly recommend you get (and carefully read)
>> Jefimenk's "Causality, Electromagnetic Induction and Gravitation." If,
>> after doing so, you still think that E causes H and vice-versa, then I
>> think that a very spirited discussion will likely ensue.
>
> Just ordered it as it is cheap enough.

> Best,
>
> Fred Diether
> Co-moderator sci.physics.foundations

A word of advice, if I may. Proceed carefully. Jefimenko seldom
differentiates clearly between stuff we have "always" known and brand new --
and sometimes astounding -- ideas. But his logic and derivations are strong
and well-reasoned.

Bill