humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On 6 Feb, 19:11, "On T. Flutenaryvalve" wrote:
> On Feb 6, 2:28 am, "Peter Farey"
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Bob Grumman wrote:
>
> > > > > Chris, you said, "Since there are grounds for different
> > > > > interpretations, both of (Jonson's) 'Shakespeare' verses
> > > > > and the most debatable monument inscription (by most
> > > > > ascribed to him,) why not grant him the talent of having
> > > > > given his verses and expressions double meanings, that
> > > > > so obviously actually could have meant the opposite of
> > > > > what he seemingly wrote?"
>
> > > > > I then suggested we start with "To the memory of my
> > > > > beloued/The Avthor/ Mr. William Shakespeare/ And/ what
> > > > > he hath left us," asking you, "Just what grounds are
> > > > > there for interpreting that to mean anything other
> > > > > than what it clearly says?"
>
> > > You have still made NO ATTEMPT to answer my question.
> > > Where's the double meaning you claim is in Jonson's title,
> > > and what evidence is there that it is there? =A0All you're
> > > doing is saying it says it's to the memory of Marlowe
> > > because that's what you want it to say.
>
> > There are two very different questions here, Bob:
>
> > 1) What meaning(s) could there be other than the one it
> > =A0 =A0clearly seems to have?
>
> > 2) What justification is there for taking any such other
> > =A0 =A0meaning to have been intentional?
>
> > The second of these, as far as I am concerned, relates to
> > what I have been trying to explain to David and Tom. This
> > is that there is obviously a need for anti-Stratfordians
> > to demonstrate that such words are not necessarily the
> > impediment to their theories that Stratfordians quite
> > reasonably claim them to be.
>
> > As far as the first is concerned, I would simply point out
> > that it is *possible* to interpret the words "To the memory
> > of my beloued/The Avthor/ Mr. William Shakespeare/ And/
> > what he hath left us," as being to the memory of up to
> > three different people in addition to what "Mr. William
> > Shakespeare...hath left us".
>
> On the contrary, it is *not* possible to interpret it that
> way, because the continuation of the poem itself does
> not allow any interpretation other than that the author,
> Shakespeare, and the beloved are one person, and
> the poet is praising what that one poet has left us:
>
> "To The Memory Of My Beloved, The Author,
> Mr William Shakespeare, And What He Hath Left Us
>
> Ben Jonson
>
> To draw no envy, Shakespeare, on thy name
> Am I thus ample to thy book and fame;
> While I confess thy writings to be such
> As neither Man nor Muse can praise too much.
> 'Tis true, and all men's suffrage. But these ways
> Were not the paths I meant unto thy praise;
> For silliest ignorance on these may light,
> Which when it sounds at best but echoes right;
> Or blind affection, which doth ne'er advance
> The truth, but gropes, and urges all by chance;
> Or crafty malice might pretend this praise,
> And think to ruin where it seemed to raise.
> These are as some infamous bawd or whore
> Should praise a matron. What could hurt her more?
> But thou art proof against them, and indeed
> Above th' ill fortune of them, or the need.
> I therefore will begin: Soul of the Age!
> The applause, delight, the wonder of our stage!
> My Shakespeare, rise; "
>
> etc.
>
> See my demolition of Monsarrat's RES paper!http://hometown.aol.com/kqknave=
/monsarr1.html
>
> The Droeshout portrait is not unusual at all!http://hometown.aol.com/kqkna=
ve/shakenbake.html
>
> Agent Jim


This "ample praise", this sickly-sweet oily over-sugared flattery
bears but one message:

"Buy this book of the greatest genius in English literature, long
since dead, wherefore we can empty what worthless praise and slimy
eulogy whatsoever on him like any marketable bullshit since he won't
be able to answer it anyway; and thus I can soothe my own bad
conscience for all the bad stuff I wrote against him while he lived.
After all, my exposure of that Sogliardo character, that total fake,
that vain trickster and con man, that conceited opportunist would need
some bandage to the harm I did to him, which we can afford now when he
has been dead for seven years. That monument in Stratford will
broadcast and testify to his hollow amateurism anyway."

Ben Jonson