humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On 3 Apr, 11:18, Ignoto wrote:
> John Andrews wrote:
> > On 1 Apr, 19:59, "Ms. Mouse" wrote:
> >> On Mar 27, 12:38 pm, John Andrews >
> >> s...@johnpandrews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> On 25 Mar, 22:47, rparisi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> =A0 =A019th century Stratfordians already pointed out (to name only o=
ne
> >>>> instance of many ) that Sterling's Darius(1603) showed clear
> >>>> imitations =A0of Prospero's "Our revels now are ended." And this summ=
er
> >>>> we =A0have seen a prominent Stratfordian arguing for a 1605 date for
> >>>> "Pericles".The list could be extended iindefinitely.
> >>> I would be fascinated by any analysis of such "imitation" which could
> >>> prove that Sterling (or whoever) imitated Propero's speech rather than=

> >>> the other way round. But why bother with literary history when we can
> >>> just make it all up?
> >>> Best wishes
> >>> John Andrews
> >> I'm sorry, I've not followed this entire thread, John. Are you saying
> >> that literary history dictates that Tempest copied Darius rather than
> >> the other way around? The evidence suggests otherwise.
>
> >> When I have the time I'll go back and read the parts of the thread
> >> that pertain to this. I would say that from Darius alone we cannot say
> >> that Shakespeare was the initiator, even though Shakespeare was a
> >> famous author and Alexander a novice at the time, and even though
> >> there are several Shakespeare echoes in Alexander's play. But if we
> >> look at Darius in concert with three or four other plays of the time,
> >> which all seemingly parallel Tempest in different ways, the case for
> >> Alexander taking from Shakespeare rather than the other way around
> >> becomes very strong indeed. One of the other plays is a roast of
> >> Shakespeare's plays, another is by a German who was known to copy
> >> Shakespeare, and a third is by an author who was just starting out and
> >> later known to use Shakespeare (and in fact Tempest) as a template. In
> >> addition there is other evidence that suggests Tempest was known and
> >> likely performed earlier than November 1611.
>
> >> We have an article in a traditional journal coming out on this exact
> >> subject. Hopefully it will be out by late summer.
>
> >> Mouse- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Dear Mouse
>
> > I don't pretend to know the originals that RNP refers to. I was just
> > making the point to him (that I have made to you) that it is
> > difficult, on occasions impossible, to be sure of the direction of
> > influence. RNP was stating with confidence that the echoing of
> > Prospero's words in a 1604 play by Sterling means that the Tempest had
> > to have been written by 1604 - I was saying that if the parallels are
> > there then there's at least an equal chance (and the theatrical
> > records suggest it's more than that) that Shakespeare was influenced
> > by Sterling.
>
> > An earlier Tempest date is explored by Chambers - the plot parallels
> > with Die Schone Sidea by Jacob Ayrer who died in 1605. He suggests it
> > is likelier that there is a common source. It's interesting that there
> > is no storm in Die Schone Sidea and no enchanted island. Chambers
> > describes a number of European sources which supply various aspects of
> > the story and even explores some idea about how some obscure
> > manuscript sources could have been brought to Shakespeare's
> > attention.
>
> > Ingredients of the Tempest seem to have been knocking about in a wide
> > range of European texts long before the first performance of the play.
> > That doesn't help much with dating the Tempest though as this is true
> > of many of Shakespeare's plays. One thing reading your posts on
> > Strachey showed me ( I don't have time to explore this myself) is the
> > huge kitty of literature that writers drew on in this period - almost
> > ransacking everything they could get hold of for new material.
>
> On this passage from the Tempest, see also Baldwin at 673-677:
>
> http://durer.press.uiuc.edu/baldwin/vol.1/html/673.html
>
>
>
> > Very best wishes
>
> > John Andrews- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Many thanks for this reference - really useful and interesting.

John Andrews