humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On Mar 12, 1:54=C2=A0am, Elizabeth wrote:
> lackpurity wrote:
> > On Mar 11, 5:21=EF=BF=BDpm, Elizabeth wrote:
> > > _________________________________________
>
>
>
> > MM:
> > I wouldn't be surprised, but are we sure? =C2=A0Bacon and those others w=
ere
> > all members of the Wilton Cult, IMO, so it wouldn't be surprising to
> > me, at all.
>
> We have to be clear on this.
>
> The Wilton faction (it was never a cult) came out
> of the Queen's grotesque insult of a fourteen-year
> old Mary Sidney.
>
> Mary was a boisterous girl, the Queen wrote a
> letter to Mary's uncle and guardian stating that Mary
> would 'cuckhold' her older husband-to-be Henry
> Herbert the 2nd earl of Pembroke. =C2=A0Pembroke
> was more than three times Mary's age.
>
> So Mary had to pack her bags and leave Court,
> it was a terrible humiliation for a young girl but
> as it turns out Herbert was an affable man
> (although notoriously sterile) but in addition was
> EXTREMELY RICH which gave Mary and opportunity
> to set up a

MM:
You claim he was sterile? How did he father the two boys?

> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0COUNTER COURT
>
> that make Elizabeth's Court look like the ignorant
> pig sty it was (it was so filthy that there were many
> deaths from lung disease, foreign ambassadors thought
> it a death sentence to be assigned to the English Court).

MM:
It seems strange that a Queen's Court would be in that state.

> I've posted on the extremely filthy conditions at the
> palace, the matter was ultimately cured by Dr. Caius
> of Merry Wives who had medical degrees from the
> two top medical schools on the Continent.

MM:
I'm reading, and I do remember you mentioning it, previously.

> There's another unappreciated English figure.
>
> So young Mary, whilst only a teenager, gathered
> the best poets in England around her and launched
> her coterie with a flyting (poetry war) against our
> Earl of Oxford.

MM:
Well, I don't know if I'd call it a war. It would be hard to think
that she was that aggressive. She knew what she was able to do, as a
result of her sanskaras as Mary Magdalene, and she did it. I suppose
some of your hypothesis was just coincidental. Her older brother,
Philip Sidney must have helped to pave the way, especially if he was
friends with Fulke Greville, Spenser, Drayton, and the others. Mary
might have just been doing what comes naturally, if you see my point?
The fact that it was in opposition to the Earl of Oxford might have
been mostly coincidental.

She started a spiritual discussion of the truth, which correctly
defines the word "satsang." Naturally, it was very attractive to the
other highly spiritual members. It had a very strong foundation, and
when Marlowe and Shakespeare became more mature, then it became
literally "out of this world."

> The Earl and Mary's brother Philip were both
> hypothetically, at least, heirs presumptive to the
> throne of England but moreover were on opposite
> sides politically and doctrinally. =C2=A0Oxford was a feudal
> Catholic, Philip was an English Renaissance Protestant.

MM:
At that time, possibly, but they outgrew all that. They became
followers of mysticism. It is clear from the writings of both men,
that they were into mysticism.

> In England the Renaissance was Protestant, not
> Catholic although it owed a huge debt to the French
> and Italian Catholics -- Italian Catholics were literate,
> English Catholics were not literate since Henry VIII
> closed down the schools and universities for a period
> of fifty and thirty years respectively.
>
> Now here is an interesting fact about the Scandalum
> Magnatum: =C2=A0As his peer, Mary could not libel or slander
> Oxford. =C2=A0She was a countess, he was an earl, it was
> so to speak, a level sheep pasture, =C2=A0as far as the
> Scandalum Magnatum was concerned. =C2=A0He could not
> sue her or charge her with a crime. She could kick him
> around in print as she pleased.
>
> Even more interesting 'Shakespeare' lost the flyting but
> only because Mary's cousin 'Shakespeare' was writing
> at Wilton. =C2=A0Spedding has found the future Francis Lord
> Verulam's handwriting all over the Sidney manuscripts.

MM:
Elizabeth, could you be a little more elaborat? I see that you're
including Bacon as "Shakespeare," but there are a lot of gaps
unexplained. If Mary was fourteen, so was Bacon, and then,
Shakespeare and Marlowe were only eleven. What were these kids
writing, according to you? The Earl must have been twenty-five years
old. Are you saying that these kids were attacking the mature Earl?
It seems that Philip Sidney would have been twenty-one, more mature
than the other boys. Wouldn't he have been the one in the forefront
of the "flyting," as you call it?

> These Wilton parodies of Oxford's verse have only
> confused Looney and the Oxfordians. =C2=A0One way or
> another 'Oxford's' verses score at the bottom of all
> stylometric comparisons to Shakespeares. =C2=A0Mary
> herself kicked in one or two.

MM:
I agree. Oxfordians don't want to discuss that much, since it is
strong evidence that Edward de Vere did not write the canon. It is
the strongest evidence of all, in fact. His date of death is pretty
strong, too, however.

> > > Nashe identifies the 'Francisco' in Act I Scene I
> > > of Hamlet as 'Francisco' Bacon, Greene writes
> > > a novel about a 'Francisco' who could be Bacon.
>
> I'm writing a post on that.-

MM:
Good.

> > MM:
> > All right. =C2=A0I'm reading.
>
> > > Let's keep in mind that this poet-playwright wrote
> > > works so great that it depressed the Rival Poets
> > > as much as the romanticisation of these 'mechanical
> > > works' fooled the Victorians.
>
> > > Another major clue to Shakespeare authorship
> > > is Nashe's jibe 'mechanical mate.' =EF=BF=BDThere is NO
> > > way that Oxford could possibly be called a
> > > 'mechanical mate' without getting Nashe into a
> > > great deal of trouble.
>
> > MM:
> > Sounds reasonable to me, but I don't know if they enforced the law to
> > that extent?
>
> Oxford had the Privy Council charge Dr. Harvey with
> a criminal offense under the Scandalum Magnatum,
> so yes, Oxford took it seriously.

MM:
Oh, I do remember you writing that he was sent to the fleet. Yes,
that a pretty serious punishment.

> Harvey was taken to the Fleet but I assume Oxford's
> charge was laughed out of Court as Harvey either
> spent one or two nights in prison or one or two weeks,
> depending on the account.

MM:
Uh Uh.

> > > If Oxford had thought that Nashe was referring
> > > to him as a 'mechanical mate' Oxford would have
> > > been compelled by law to act on that slur as
> > > an insult against an earl was an insult against the
> > > DIGNITY of his 'cousin' the Queen.
>
> > MM:
> > Sounds reasonable to me.

Michael Martin