humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On Mar 4, 5:42=C2=A0pm, Dominic Hughes wrote:
> On Mar 4, 3:43=C2=A0pm, lackpurity wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 1:35=EF=BF=BDam, "Peter Farey" uk>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "lackpurity" wrote:
>
> > > > Elizabeth wrote:
>
> > > > > Nashe is accusing the author of Hamlet of working
> > > > > with or having worked with, a faction of poets. Nashe
> > > > > would know this well, he was targeted by Mary Sidney
> > > > > Her Ladyshippe who wrote a verse making fun of his
> > > > > name, she calls him something like 'Gnashadoccio'
> > > > > (McCarthy).
> > > > MM:
> > > > Preface To Greene's Menaphon
>
> > > > An excerpt:
>
> > > > It is a common practice now-a-days amongst a sort of
> > > > shifting companions, that run through ever art and thrive
> > > > by none, to leave the trade of noverint whereto they were
> > > > born and busy themelves with the endeavours of art, that
> > > > could scarcely Latinize their neck-verse if they should
> > > > have need; yet English Seneca read by canlelight yields
> > > > many good sentences, as Blood is a begaar, and so forth,
> > > > and if you entreat him fair in a frosty morning, he will
> > > > afford you whole Hamlets, I should say handfuls, of trag-
> > > > ical speeches.
>
> > > > MM:
> > > > I'd like you to explain your POV more clearly. =EF=BF=BDThis
> > > > paragraph by Nashe seems to fit well with William Shake-
> > > > speare of Stratford, Elizabeth. =EF=BF=BDIt also seems congruent
> > > > with what Jonson wrote of Shakespeare, "small Latin and
> > > > less Greek."
>
> > > Nashe's words are widely if not universally believed to
> > > be referring to Thomas Kyd, a playwright known to be born
> > > to "the trade of noverint" (scrivener), his father having
> > > been warden of the Company of Scriveners.
>
> > > Nashe continued:
>
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDBut O grief! *Tempus edax rerum*, what's that will =
last
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDalways? The sea exhaled by drops will in continuanc=
e be
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDdry, and Seneca, let blood line by line and page by=
page,
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDat length must needs die to our stage, which makes =
his
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDfamished followers to imitate the kid in Aesop,
>
> > > Another clue?
>
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDwho, enamoured with the fox's newfangles, forsook a=
ll
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDhopes of life to leap into a new occupation, and th=
ese
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDmen, renouncing all possibilities of credit or esti=
mat-
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDion, to intermeddle with Italian translations...
>
> > > Kyd (unlike Nashe) did not go to university, but did go to
> > > Merchant Taylor's school, where he learnt both French and
> > > Italian, and later used this ability to translate works of
> > > both Robert Garnier (his Senecan play *Cornelie*) and
> > > Tasso (*Il padre di famiglia*).
>
> > > The reference to Hamlet is therefore usually taken to be
> > > an earlier version of the play (the 'Ur-Hamlet') written
> > > by Kyd. Isabelle Kittson Brown, cited by Elizabeth, is
> > > I think very much in the minority on this one.
>
> > > Peter F.
> > >
> > >
>
> > MM:
> > "that could scarcely Latinize their neck-verse, if they had need."
> > Thomas Nashe from preface to "Menophon."
>
> > What is neck-verse? =C2=A0My understanding is that it includes spiritual=

> > teachings. =C2=A0One website said that it hints to the clergy. =C2=A0
>
> You really don't know what is meant by "neck-verse"? =C2=A0And, after
> searching the net, the best you can come up with is that the phrase
> includes a spiritual teaching and "hints to the clergy."

MM:
If you want to compete with me, take Hamlet or any other work of the
canon, line by line. You will lose. You need to try to learn
something from those superior to you, if you want to make the most of
this life.

You are out on the periphery. Try getting to the point, what Nashe
wrote and the person to whom he was referring. You're just tiptoeing
through the tulips.

> Through the mechanism of benefit of clergy, many defendants found
> guilty of certain felonies were spared the death penalty and were
> given a lesser punishment. Dating back to the middle ages, benefit of
> clergy was originally a right accorded to the church to punish its own
> members should they be convicted of a crime. In this instance the
> court did not prescribe any punishment for the defendant and instead
> handed him over to church officials.
> Since it was difficult to prove who was affiliated with the church,
> convicts who claimed benefit of clergy were required to read a passage
> from the Bible. Judges usually chose verses from the 51st Psalm, which
> was termed the "neck verse", since it saved many people from the death
> penalty.
> As literacy became more common outside the church, the practice
> gradually developed of permitting all men convicted of allowable
> felonies to be permitted benefit of clergy if they could read the
> "neck verse". This test was a flexible one, and judges could be
> lenient or strict in their expectations of what was an acceptable
> level of reading, depending on their views concerning the desirability
> of imposing the death penalty in the specific circumstances. In 1623
> women found guilty of the theft of goods less than ten shillings were
> allowed benefit of clergy, and in 1691 they were granted the privilege
> on the same terms as men.
>
> http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/history/crime/punishment.html
>
> ***********************************************************************
> E. Cobham Brewer 1810=E2=80=931897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
>
> Neck-verse (Psalm li. 1)
>
> =E2=80=9CHave mercy upon me, O God, according to Thy lovingkindness: accor=
ding
> unto the multitude of Thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.=E2=80=
=9D
> This verse was so called because it was the trial-verse of those who
> claimed benefit of clergy; and if they could read it, the ordinary of
> Newgate said, =E2=80=9CLegit ut cler cus,=E2=80=9D and the convict saved h=
is neck,
> being only burnt in the hand and set at liberty.
>
> If a clerk had been taken
> For stealing of bacon,
> For burglary, murder, or rape.
> If he could but rehearse
> (Well prompt) his neck-verse,
> He never could fail to escape.=E2=80=9D
> -- British Apollo (1710).

MM:
As I already emphasized, the imitators of William Shakespeare couldn't
latinize the spiritual teachings. Why? Because they weren't a
Master, as Shakespeare was.

Michael Martin