humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On 15 Feb, 18:09, "Paul Crowley"
wrote:
> "John Andrews" wrote in messa=
ge
>
> news:4a924499-ec38-4b49-a405-52be91dbcbd5@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Crowley provides a study in disingenuous argument. He has a monotonous
> > bag of tricks - rhetorical flummery - which he juggles with.
>
> Andrews has one main trick -- ignore the
> words of the person you are trying to
> criticise. =A0You can then distort freely, and
> invent all manner of nonsense.
>
> > Reversal is one
>
> Reversal of what?
>
> > - accusing you of not having any ideas (which you clearly have,
> > although I disagree with them)
>
> Lynne CLAIMED that she had changed her
> ideas (in particular on the Sonnets) but was
> unable to mention a single one.
>
> > whilst parading his alternately funny
> > and bizarre ideas on the sonnets. He dismisses the views of anyone who
> > has made proper study of history or literature - granting himself the
> > position of "expert" and also obviating the need to deal with the
> > evidence they present which makes a nonsense of his case. Take one
> > example - the fashion for sonnets began with Warton's sonnets
> > published in 1582
>
> What is the basis for this assertion?
> Andrews's own authority?
>
> > and reached its height in the mid 1590's. Pretty
> > unexceptional literary history, one would have thought.
>
> Stratfordian 'literary history' -- how sonnets
> became popular among the masses -- the
> common people, of whom the Stratman
> was one. =A0 (Yep, =A0that what Strats believe --
> sonnets for the masses.)
>
> > It doesn't fit
> > with Paul's view (can we call it a "view"?) that the sonnets refer to
> > events in the 1560-1580 period, so Paul invents a much earlier date
> > for the fashion of sonneteering. Easy. He doesn't need to prove
> > anything (all the manuscripts were kept private of course) and he can
> > dismiss any contrary evidence as Stratfordian nonsense. To argue in
> > this way is child's play - and childish too.
>
> There are _hundreds_ of references to
> sonnets before 1570 (let alone 1582). =A0Of
> course, that was (pretty much) only among
> the aristocracy, so they would not count to
> an ignorant Strat. =A0Many (if not most)
> aristocrats wrote poetry (often sonnets)
> especially when young. =A0Those of Mary
> QS and her husband, Lord Darnley (killed
> in 1567), are among the most famous.
>
>
>
> Paul.