humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On Apr 11, 5:37=A0pm, Tom Reedy wrote:
> On Apr 11, 4:23=A0pm, "Ms. Mouse" wrote:
>
> > On Apr 11, 4:38=A0pm, Ignoto wrote:
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> > > In any case the publication of A True Declaration, which borrows from
> > > the Strachey letter, is further evidence as to the 1610 date of
> > > strachey's letter. I know S-K have textual arguments that claim Strach=
ey
> > > was a plagiarist, but I'm afraid I just don;t find these very impressi=
ve.
>
> > > eg. from p458.
>
> > > Jourdain, Discovery, Registered 1610:
> > > "The Bermudas... lying seven leagues unto the sea... (108) this island=
,
> > > I mean the main island, with all the broken island adjacent, are made =
in
> > > the form of a half moon, but a little more rounder, and divided into
> > > many broken islands" (113)
>
> > > Strachey:
>
> > > "The Bermudas be broken islands, five hundred of them in a manner of a=
n
> > > archipelago... and all now lying in the figure of a croissant, within
> > > the circuit of six or seven leagues"
>
> > > According to S-K the Strachey passage is plagiarised from Jourdain. Th=
is
> > > ignores the plain fact that both Strachey and Jordain are describing t=
he
> > > *same natural object*. If descriptions of the *same* nature order did
> > > not resemble each other at some point we should wonder if they were ev=
en
> > > describing the same thing. It is but a small wonder that men in Kiraba=
ti
> > > and Zimbabwe can both call the moon 'round' though they have never met=
.
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> > > Ign.- Hide quoted text -
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> > > - Show quoted text -
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> > Hi Ig,
>
> > There's a lot more similar in those passages than a single word such
> > as "moon." Would you like me to point the parallels out to you?
>
> What difference could it possibly make? You've apparently accepted
> that the Strachey "B" text went to England on the same boat with
> Jourdain. How could Strachey have plagirized Jourdain given the
> excerpt I quoted from it? Here it is again:
>
> They are broken islands to the number of five hundred like an
> archipelago, small though of irregular size, some being larger than
> others, according as time and the sea have formed a passage through
> them. All lie in the figure of a crescent within the circuit of six or
> seven leagues at most, but it is said that they formerly extended
> fourteen leagues in length. Sir George Summers, who carefully coasted
> the whole in his boat, ascertained their present extent.
>
> I'm sure Somers told more people than Strachey about it, so Jourdain's
> knowledge would not be all that secret, but my point is that Strachey
> had already written the passage long before Jourdain got to England
> and wrote his little pamphlet by your own admission (unless I'm
> misunderstanding your position).

You are, actually. We haven't said that the earlier text got to
England on the ship. We believe that it was more probable that it
rather than True Reportory did. If it did, the writing could have gone
either way, as Jourdain's narrative was extremely short, like that of
DLW and similar to that of Strachey's in Virginia, used very few
sources that we can see, and could easily have been written in
Virginia or finished on the ship.

The copy of what one assumes is an earlier version of True Reportory
is a new and exciting find. You must remember that our paper was
written and sent out a couple of years before it was printed, which
was done, at least online, in April of last year. The Hume article
wasn't available to us three years ago, or at least, we didn't find it
during our online searches, though I know it was published in 2001.
We are still discussing and working on what Hume calls the "B"
version, which you were kind enough to apprise us of, and we will do
more on it in the summer. It may turn small things such as Strachey/
Jourdain around or it may not, but as far as we can see it will
ultimately strengthen our case, for a number of reasons.

Mouse
>
> TR
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>
> >Or
> > would you like me to show you some of the accepted Strachey/
> > Shakespeare parallels in Kathman, that have just one word in common
> > and are found elsewhere in Shakespeare's works? =A0I'm wondering if the
> > inspiration for the Jourdain/Strachey passage didn't come from Henry/
> > John May, who in around 1595 wrote of Bermuda as being "all divided
> > into broken islets..." but that's stretching things a fair bit.
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> > Mouse- Hide quoted text -
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