humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare

On Feb 29, 10:13=A0am, Tom Reedy wrote:
> On Feb 29, 8:26=A0am, Dominic Hughes wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 2:30=A0pm, "Paul Crowley"
>
> > wrote:
> > > "Dominic Hughes" wrote in message
>
> > >news:55a27d14-7cbd-4dc2-a24c-3219ad3b289e@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com.=
..
>
> > > [..]
>
> > > >> No serious Shakespeare scholar or
> > > >> Elizabethan historian would argue that
> > > >> the Anne Hathaway was literate.
>
> > > > As usual, Crowley has no evidence for the unequivocal pronouncements=

> > > > he makes.
>
> > > As usual -- for all Strats -- Hughes cannot deal
> > > with any response, except to repeat his bluster.
>
> > You made certain assertions.
> > I asked you for the evidence that you relied on for those assertions.
> > Your response contained no evidence.
> > I pointed out that you had provided no evidence (as is your usual
> > practice).
> > You replied with bluster, accusing me of indulging in the same.
> > The irony is as thick as you are.
> > Your inability to ever provide ANY evidentiary support for your ex
> > cathedra pronouncements is pathetic.
>
> > > > Snip restored:
>
> > > Why bother? =A0It's the standard Strat
> > > mindless drivel.
>
> > As opposed to the so-called facts that you constantly pull from your
> > arse.
> > You have nothing that qualifies as what is generally considered to be
> > evidence. =A0In fact, you state that your evidence is of "a TOTALLY
> > different nature" from that which is commonly accepted -- too bad you
> > can never even provide any of that "different" evidence to us. =A0You
> > make statements and consider your statements to be facts. =A0You are a
> > stranger to logic and fact.
>
> > > > The so-called quasi-Strats are rational enough to
> > > > realize that there is evidence as to Shakespeare's role as an actor
> > > > with the acting company that performed the Shakespeare plays, and th=
at
> > > > there is evidence establishing his role as a shareholder in the
> > > > theater where those plays were performed. =A0Your quasi-Strats reali=
ze
> > > > that they must come up with some quasi-rational argument to explain
> > > > away that evidence. =A0Because you reside in the delusional Crowley
> > > > Zone, you either deny the existence of such evidence or dismiss it a=
s
> > > > inauthentic (forgeries, documents surreptitiously placed by the
> > > > government plotters, etc.).
> > > >> > Could you explain your argument as to how the known signatures qu=
alify
> > > >> > as evidence that William Shakespeare was illiterate?
>
> > > >> The manifest clumsiness in the handling
> > > >> of the pen, and the inablity [sic] to remember
> > > >> how to finish the 'signature'..
>
> > > > This assertion is stupid even for you. =A0Sloppy penmanship does not=

> > > > necessarily signify illiteracy
>
> > > That penmanship is not the sloppiness
> > > we so often see from the hands of the
> > > careless literate. =A0It is the striving of the
> > > quite incompetent. =A0It has some similarity
> > > to the writing of a typical seven-year old.
> > > There is no fluency. =A0This person has only
> > > rarely sought to draw the letters, and is
> > > liable to do it in an uncertain and varying
> > > manner each time.
>
> > These are your opinions...they are not facts that prove that
> > Shakespeare's sloppy penmanship shows his illiteracy. =A0Pharmacists and=

> > nurses constantly complain about the sloppiness of physician's
> > handwriting. =A0Those doctors are not illiterate.
>
> > > > , and abbreviating his name when signing
> > > > documents is not proof that he couldn't "remember" how to finish his=

> > > > name.
>
> > > These 'signatures' are all on legal
> > > documents, where the person was
> > > supposed to be signing his whole
> > > name -- and where any abbreviations
> > > would be out of the question.
>
> > Can you provide some evidence for your assertion that abbreviations
> > were not used in legal documents of that time.
>
> > > > The great dramatist's kinsman and solicitor, Thomas Greene, wrote hi=
s
> > > > client's name Shakspear, Shakspeare, and Shakspurre...was Greene
> > > > illiterate?
>
> > > The Stratman's surname could be spelled
> > > in all manner of ways. =A0There was only a
> > > vague sound, with [sic] and no standard
> > > spelling.
> > > >> >> OF COURSE he was illiterate.
>
> > > >> > Prove it.
>
> > > >> Only an ignorant Strat desperate to hold
> > > >> on to his superstitions would need such
> > > >> proof.
>
> > > > "Name-calling is not an argument." =A0-- Paul Crowley
>
> > > The clown Hughes cannot see an argument.
> > > Anyone putting forward an anti-Strat case
> > > is necessarily being abusive. =A0It's Greg
> > > Reynolds time. =A0To deny the Stratman is
> > > to personally insult every Strat.
>
> > You asserted that William Shakespeare was illiterate, and I asked you
> > to prove it.
> > Proving an assertion in an argument typically requires producing
> > factual evidence in support of the assertion you have made.
> > In response to my request for your evidence, you called me "an
> > ignorant Strat" and pontificated that there was no need to provide any
> > evidence.
> > And the funny/sad thing about this is that you actually believe that
> > you have made an argument.
> > Your inability to put together a coherent, logical argument in support
> > of your blanket assertions is pathetic.
>
> > > > It is readily apparent that you are unable to make even a minimal
> > > > effort at proving your unsupported assertion that William Shakespear=
e
> > > > of Stratford was illiterate.
>
> > > Hey -- illiterate parents, an illiterate
> > > wife, illiterate siblings and illiterate
> > > children. =A0 OK, OK, I admit I'm wrong.
> > > He was really a great literary author.
> > > Probably the greatest of all time. =A0How
> > > could anyone possibly deny it?
>
> > You rely on a notion of guilt by association and base speculation. =A0It=

> > is nbo wonder that you are unable to put together a logical and
> > coherent argument.
>
> > > >> Nope. =A0He was found by happy chance.
> > > >> Probably Richard Field laughingly
> > > >> mentioned he knew an illiterate =A0'William
> > > >> Shakespeare' in his home town.
>
> > > > So Richard Field was one of the plotters.
>
> > > He didn't have to be -- but he probably
> > > was. Although the term should really
> > > be " . . . one of the jokers . . ". =A0 It was
> > > a great practical joke, played on the
> > > profoundly ignorant.
>
> > Speculation with no evidentiary foundation.
>
> > > > Who else was in on the plot?
>
> > > Tedious and more tedious. =A0I have
> > > answered this many times before.
>
> > Can you link me to a post where you have supplied the names of the
> > plotters/jokers?
>
> > > >> > and they chose the Stratfordian William Shakespeare, all that for=
the
> > > >> > purpose of passing him off as the author of the most admired lite=
rary
> > > >> > works of the day.
>
> > > >> He had to be a name in a remote location.
>
> > > > This is a non sequitur. =A0He lived and had business in London, as t=
he
> > > > Belott-Mountjoie documents
>
> > > He visited London.
>
> > > > (and many others) indicate.
>
> > > So many that you can't remember a single one.
> > > As I say, it's not the Alzheimer's that is the
> > > problem. =A0It's the Stratfordianism -- a much
> > > more pernicious condition.
>
> > As opposed to the tertiary syphillis that has fried your brain...
>
> > From =A0Reedy And Kathman:
>
> Correction: From Ross and Kathman.
>
> TR
>

I apologize for the misattribution.

Dom

>
> > List of Non-literary References to William Shakespeare of Stratford-
> > upon-Avon
> > 1594 (Record of payment to Chamberlain's Men; December 28)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Will. Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten) (EKC II, 319; facs. SS, 136)
>
> > 1596 (Writ for sureties of the peace by William Wayte; Michaelmas
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Term)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakspere"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1597 (List of tax defaulters, St. Helen's parish, London; November 15)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shackspere"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1598 (List of tax defaulters, St. Helen's parish, London; October 1)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1598-9 (List of tax defaulters, St. Helen's parish, London)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Willelmus Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1599 (Inventory of property of Thomas Brend, whose son Sir Nicholas
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0owned the grounds on which the Globe stood; May 16)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Willielmi Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1599 (List of tax defaulters; Residuum London of Pipe Roll for 1598-9;
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0October 6))
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Willelmus Shakspeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1601 (Deed transfering the Globe and other Southwark properties
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 from Nicholas Brend to Sir Matthew Brown and John
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Collett as security for a 2500-pound debt; October 7)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Richard Burbadge and William Shackspeare gent."
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1601 (Updated deed for the above transaction; October 10)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Richard Burbage and William Shakspeare gentlemen"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1602 (Diary of John Manningham; March 13)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten; John Manningham)
>
> > 1603 (Warrant under Signet Seal for Royal letters patent creating the
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0King's Men; May 17)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1603 (Royal letters patent creating the King's Men; May 19)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1604 (From Account of Sir George Home, Master of the Great Wardrobe,
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0for the Proceeding of King James through London on Ma=
rch 15,
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01604; R.O. Chamberlain's Books)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1605 (Will of Augustine Phillips; May 4)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "William Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1608 (Deed transferring the Globe and other properties from
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 John Collett to John Bodley; November 11)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Richard Burbadge & William Shakespeare gent"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1612 (Bellott v. Mountjoy, deposition of Joan Johnson; May 11)
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Mr. Shakespeare"
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (handwritten)
>
> > 1612 (Bellott v. Mountjoy,
>
> ...
>
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